Family and religion...Yay...

[zelazny]

I dunno about you guys, but i come from a relatively big family, which is nice because the bigger the family the more people there are which you can get along with (I have a few great nieces and nephews, who are also quite mad, not to mention some cool uncles) but some things just don't mix with family, nor money and especially not religion.

A bit of background : Most of my family is active xtian, doing a lot of work around the church and more of that stuff.
Now i was at a party yesterday, which was quite nice, and my mother, whom never really accepted me not being xtian chats with some aunts and comes outside later to tell me, backed up by her aunt, that they have this great book written by an english preacher that helped her 'get her faith back' and suggested, several times that i should try to read it.
Well, after a while i thought, "Meh..whatever".. so i went in to take a look at it. It's one of those typical books, softcover, some pseudo-meaningfull picture of a 'journey' on the front.
So i open it, and take a look at the index, and there's the usual xtian type of chapters "Why we have to tell others of our faith..etc" (i skimmed that chapter, it made me really angry) etc..
So finally i come up to two interesting chapters in the index "What is the reason in our lives" (I was chuckling internally when reading the name of that topic) and "how can we know that our faith is correct".
Decinding that that last topic was probably the most important one in the book from my standpoint i started to read the first 3 pages, in which the writer starts of with just rambling about, then brings in the bible as 'proof' and goes into the usual circle logic. After reading that i just skimmed the rest of the chapter, but nothing interesting happened.
So i put that book down and told them that it was.. well.. rubbish. Immediately my aunts and mother go into defense mode "How can you say that after just reading for 5 minutes!" etc.. So i told them that the logic was flawed and it just wasn't a 'good' book as far as theology goes.
Well, that was oil to the fires.
The bad thing was: i said : "Okay, well, i can give arguments for my opinions, and we can discuss this if you want to." Which the aunt in question refused, saying that she didn't need to discuss her ideas.
(Which may be true, but if people don't want to discuss them i find them very narrow-minded people).
So it ends into a compromise where i say : "Okay, i'll read your book, if you'll read my critiques on it"
Now i'm stuck with an obnoxious book and the knowledge that my aunt will have to deal what i'm gonna write about it, which is gonna be a heck of a lot more logical than that book.
To be honest, it's gonna be a slaughter, i mean, (oh dear, there goes my ego) i've had a _lot_ of experience on religious debates and logic therein (Heck, that's how i met shatzy in the first place) and she has none. So this is either going to get ugly, in the sense that she'll read what i write and there might be a fight, or she might just ignore my point alltogether. Which is her good right, i know, but it makes me fume.
Really really fume. I try to keep my religion out of the whole family business but they come and try to pull me back into it.
Sigh, this is gonna be painfull.
And i have to read this stupid book too.. blegh.

[zelazny]

For all you people who don't like long posts and scrolled down, here's the excerpt : I have family, family is religious, i'm not, and the resulting problems thereof.

And i'm not sure why i posted it, but i wanted to get it of my chest.

[SHATOUSHKA]

i read your post... and found it very typical.

my mother has the same habit... though not as
strong now that i don't see her.

she would find a deep pleasure in bringing up
'god topics' or saying something remotely
religious and watching my reaction.

now let me back up.... i know that it may appear
that i am some HIGHLY ACTIVE atheist... but it
usually just depends on the environment and
circumstances i'm in when something like this
happens.

but my mother plays these games because she KNOWS
that i disagree... so it feeds her desire to
start shit.

anyways... while i admire your attempt to read
the book and even go so far as to write your
retort.... i think its safe to assume the outcome.

now i won't dare judge your aunt... as i know
next to nothing about her... but from my experience,
your writing (and your aunt reading) could be
easily compared to giving shakespeare to
a 3rd grader and asking them their opinion on it.

what i find especially annoying is that when i'm
in the same circumstance, and someone is willing
to hear me out... its usually with limitations.

as i always attempt to make myself clear in the
fact that i AM NOT attempting to change a person's
deep-seeded (delusional) views.... they always
tend to want to change mine... which is unfair.

bah... i coulda just saved time by saying two words...
(can't everything be reduced to two words?)

"cave allegory"

[zelazny]

Yeah, i know. But on the bright side, it might finally convince the rest that not being xtian is more than just a fling.
It's a good moment to get this completely sorted out, and it's a good moment for me to write down what i think.
And allthough i like my aunt, i do fear that she won't read it. But i can't sit by and read this.. crap... and hear people around me tell me how good it is.

Ah well, thanks for the compliment on my writing (I take it that was more of a compliment to me than an insult to my aunt? [img]wink.gif[/img] ).

[Hannibal]

...Of course, Shatzy still thinks she can imagine death, and what is beyond....
*cracks up thinking about that "discussion"*
..
.
..
.
good times... [img]smile.gif[/img]
.
.
But Zela, I hear your plight brutha, but the people I usually deal with are fellow students, making them even less exposed *not being as old as your aunt*... and harder to talk to. But I DO love religious debates with old ladies. But 90% of the time they're too deeply entwined with their faith, they are WAY too stubborn.
Good luck,
May the force be with you!
*or the shwartz, whatever* [img]wink.gif[/img]

[Hannibal]

<------------------ *CAN wait for another shatzy "discussion"... hahaha*
..
.
.
.
good times! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

[SHATOUSHKA]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">quote:</font><table border="0" width="90%" bgcolor="#333333" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="0"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" bgcolor="#FF9900"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#000000"><font size=2 face="Tempus Sans ITC, Tahoma">Originally posted by Cow Cud Is A Twin:
...Of course, Shatzy still thinks she can imagine death, and what is beyond....
*cracks up thinking about that "discussion"*
</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL... ass [img]tongue.gif[/img]
i ONLY stated that you cannot escape your conceptions....
your perceptions... or what you can conceive.
you shithead [img]tongue.gif[/img]

anyways... yeah... i think its good to air it
out. even if you both agree to disagree...
surely the VERY LEAST that is accomplished is
a firmer understanding of where each person is
coming from.

hopefully all will go well.

*can't wait for another hanny discussion* [img]graemlins/heart.gif[/img]